PlaneShift

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	PlaneShift vs Peragro a non battle :) posted by Induane @ 24.124.64.244 on Jan 22 2010 5:42 AM
I've seen quite a bit of back and fourth going on here about several things, Particularly Talad, Zanzibar, and Tuxide discussing many things and fighting a bit. One issue that seems to come up in this thread is Peragro Tempus and PlaneShift. Before I start though I would like to say that there are many interesting aspects of PlaneShift, and that as far as free online RPG games go that have open source aspects it is really the most developed, playable, and complete game of its kind available. This is a remarkable achievement and should not be understated. For gamers looking for something like this, this really is the best and only game at the moment. There are several things I'd like to clarify as a Peragro Tempus developer. The first is that there is some kind of battle or trolling attempt by PT as an organization to discredit, destroy, undermine, or just plain be hateful to PlaneShift. To the core these assertions are fundamentally false. We're busy trying to make a very complicated game and don't have time to perpetually engage in trolling or evil conspiracies. We have better things to do with our time than be petty. I will be the first to admit that I personally have had some issues with the management of PlaneShift. For whatever reason I never got on particularly well with Talad on a personal level. There was a time period where I was trying to convince the PlaneShift team to capitalize on the strength of the community as a development resource to get them more involved in shaping the game and as a way to speed development. Obviously we could argue the merits of this both ways, and thats not what I'm trying to do here. Sufficed to say that at the time Talad and I did not see eye to eye on that (among other) issues. I would like to point out in fairness that my claims of their stubbornness in this department were initially overstated and they have done more to utilize the community in the last few years. At the time I was also going through a fairly poor time in my life, the end result of which involved me kicking my wife out for alcohol abuse and infidelity and was then bogged down in a custody battle for my two little girls. During this time after a particularly (what I felt was anyways) insulting comment from Talad that lashed out against cooperation between PT and PS, I submitted (of my own accord and without prompting, coercion, or any other form of instigation from Peragro Tempus) the game PlaneShift for a review by the comedy site SomethingAwful. They politely declined, but upon learning I had done this I was banned from PlaneShift in every aspect. This reaction led SomethingAwful to change their minds and do the review anyways (SA reviews involve trolling and then making a review that pokes fun at games or sometime just insults them). At that time I wasn't really doing much development work (motivation was lacking probably due to depression) and so I had spent enough time on the web to at least have a hand in the lead up to the review. I think that these actions by me helped to create a notion that PT hated PS and that the two projects were at odds. The opposite is true. Vengeance occasionally hung out in our channel as has Xordan on occasion for technical discussions (when we weren't teasing him for breaking CS on the main CrystalSpace channel :D ). I understand though that Talads perspective was that PT existing as a project might capture some people who otherwise might contribute to PS and that this could be counterproductive to their goals. I personally believe that cooperation is a better solution to issues like this, and they may agree in principle as well but there are some fundamental differences in the goals of the projects that probably make it less feasible than I would like. In the end I really don't see much point in the back and forth who said what when and why and who hates who and who is better and who is a jerk and all the name calling, etc... Tuxide you live fairly close, if you ever drop down into Kansas stop by and I'll make you a margarita and put you up for a bit (who wants to pay for a hotel? ). Of course that means if I'm ever heading to the Omaha zoo again I need to drop in for a bit as well :) so long as you'll have me (just kidding, I know you already offered). PlaneShift and Peragro Tempus are different projects with different goals. On the surface PT and PS look similar because they are both online RPG games set in a generally Medieval Period and both use the CrystalSpace engine for their game. PlaneShift utilizes an opensource model for their game engine code but favor a proprietary solution for their art in the interests of keeping their world unique to PlaneShift. PT utilizes opensource models for code and art as well as settings. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages so to each his own. People who worry their art might be misused might be more comfortable working in a setting like PS, people who are more concerned about reuse of assets and available source for all aspects of a project might be more comfortable developing in a setting like Peragro Tempus. There are lots of different opinions and there is room on the internet for all of us to coexist. I really do wish PS the best, and Peragro Tempus as a whole does as well. We do like to poke fun now and then, and sometimes from an outside perspective its useful to look at the things PS does well and learn from it, and to look at the places where it fails or struggles and learn from those mistakes as well. This isn't malice its simply utilizing observations. People have a tendency as a whole to focus on negative things I think and it often overshadows the good in everything thats going on. There is lots of good to focus on. There are people out here in both projects trying to make a game full of free content for people to just enjoy and explore and they are doing it without pay for the sheer joy of the activity. I think this is simply wonderful all around. Cheers all, Induane
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Re: PlaneShift vs Peragro a non battle : posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jan 22 2010 7:50 AM   Don't know what brought this on, but whatever. PlaneShift and Peragro Tempus developers hate me more than anything else in the world now, and I am proud of it because that means they are more willing to understand each other. From his recent comments about Zanzibar, Talad is a total jerk who can't read more than two sentences of English. One who cannot accept being hated by everyone is unfit to lead. I don't ever want to see him posting on tLGT again, and I think everyone who has ever read his comments on this website wants him to stay away from here. Every time I hear of Peragro Tempus any more I hear it described as dead and a fork of PlaneShift, and I even hear the PlaneShift haters say it too. But regardless of how active it really is or what anyone believes here, if you still develop on this thing then let me give you a word of advice from what I've seen happen in other MMOs. Players tend to be more interested in the feuds coming from the developers than they do in the content or features of the games they work on. This is why I don't think you should've posted here either. Something Awful knew you were some developer that was full of drama and that is why they gave you their attention the second time you contacted them. The only thing they tried and unfortunately failed to pursue was more drama from where it came from, and now their MMO Roulette column is dead because of it.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift vs Peragro a non battle : posted by Induane @ 99.155.181.23 on Jan 22 2010 4:08 PM   I'd agree a leader must be able to accept that many will disagree or dislike him or her, and I'd also like to suggest that they need to be open to the people whom they essentially are providing a service, but the leadership debate is an old beaten horse. I do find the concept that Peragro Tempus is a fork of PlaneShift since it came into being completely independant of PlaneShift at all, uses none of its code resources, or any of its resources at all (except that it uses crystalspace so when a PS dev improves CS then we get that benefit as well). I suppose maybe I shouldn't have posted, but guess I did. No biggie. SA gave me time of day because they sensed the tension might lead to some things they could poke fun of and you're right, I was absolutely a part of that but I really don't think the column died because of it. There weren't too many more MMO's that fit their criteria that they wanted to do, plus readership was never that high on it anyways. Maybe it did end it though, I don't know. I wasn't involved in the decision. I guess I just don't see a need for the petty disputes or arguments that seem to come out from time to time. :) oh well though. Cheers, Induane   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift vs Peragro a non battle : posted by Induane @ 99.155.181.23 on Jan 26 2010 4:05 PM   My apologies for the horrible lapse in coherency and grammar in the above post. What I meant to say was essentially I always wondered where the notion that Peragro was a fork of PlaneShift came into being. Their origins were unrelated. its a silly claim, and I'm not even sure why people make it. Anyways my fault for being unclear there. that sentence really trailed off and never really managed to get where it was going and the whole post made no sense as a result!   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift vs Peragro a non battle : posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jan 27 2010 12:46 AM   Beats me, why don't you ask humanity. I don't care what people call it.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift vs Peragro a non battle : posted by Induane @ 99.155.181.23 on Jan 28 2010 6:22 PM   :D Well, I would.... but I don't know how. Plus i'd bet most of humanity has not heard of PlaneShift or Peragro Tempus so it would be a wasted effort.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift vs Peragro a non battle : posted by Induane @ 99.155.181.23 on Jan 28 2010 6:23 PM   And just in case you think I'm braindead or something, yes I clicked on your link. The humanity bit was a bad pun at best :-)   [Reply]

	How I like PS posted by jorrit @ 134.58.179.36 on Jan 5 2010 10:37 AM
Of course my opinion is a bit biased as I'm the original author of the Crystal Space engine that is being used by PlaneShift but I'm still trying to be honest about my opinion that I give here. First I have known PS for a long time (obviously since they use my engine). It always has had a steady flow of development. Not all of it visible on the outside as a lot of development happens internally with story and settings items that only come in the game much later. During that development the game has not always been that easy to use or that fun to play. But only a few weeks ago I decided to try it again (after not playing it for years) and I'm having a lot of fun! The game has bugs, crashes sometimes, and there are many graphical glitches here and there (although most go away after installing recent 3D drivers). But what makes PS so fun (at least for me) is the big amount of content that is now present and the large amount of things that you can now do. There are hundreds of NPC's with which you can chat (in a limited way of course), trade, train and from which you can get quests. Some quests are easy, some are hard but it is very exciting to do them and then get your reward. I also like to explore a lot. There are many strange places and if you are patient enough you can find a lot of interesting spots on the landscape. So basically what I want to say is that PS has really changed a lot recently. If you tried it in the past and didn't like it you might want to try it again to see how it evolved. Greetings,
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Re: How I like PS posted by eyerobot @ 99.181.131.33 on Jan 19 2010 10:55 PM While I really do appreciate a free game, As well as the game engine its built on, The truth is... Planeshift just isnt much fun to play yet. The characters movements are stiff, The beginners quest is rediculously difficult, Because they dont give you enough creatures to hunt, And then ignore every question you have. The only answer i ever recieved, Was from a player, Who only said "Its a role playing game, You have to act like your toon to get an answer". Needless to say, My response was, " Thats just stupid, Not fun". So far as exploring, You can travel about five hundred feet before you realize you have an energy bar that is depleted, And since your brand new, You have no way to replenish it, And have to sit there for ages before you can travel again, And once you do get to a new area, There is literally nothing there that you will understand, Let alone be able to fight, And in the end you find out your restricted to fighting the five rats in the sewer, For many levels, before your able to go anywhere new. Overall if I had to rate the game appearance, It would be very high, Because its very pretty. Gameplay is almost non existent. Unless you want to spend half your life in a game world, Which I dont. Player help ingame does not exist. Volunteers or not, The GM staff is very rude, And tend to drive off most new players. I ran into this same problem with eternal lands GM staff, Just throwing that in there. If you can stand the boredome long enough to actually get started in this game, And then get yourself killed. You will find yourself in hell, Which is a tricky maze you have to get out of, And probably wont on the first try. Which just adds to the aggravating feel of this game to the extent, That a lot of players log out at this point, And never return. Its time for a house cleaning at Planeshift, And a training session for the GM's. And also focus on gameplay, Rather than roleplaying, To improve the entertainment level of the game. I do appreciate the free game, I just dont have any fun playing it. I will however continue to monitor its progress every few months, In the hopes that it will improve.   [Reply]   Re: How I like PS posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jan 20 2010 1:11 AM   The only answer i ever recieved, Was from a player, Who only said "Its a role playing game, You have to act like your toon to get an answer". Needless to say, My response was, " Thats just stupid, Not fun". If that's what you think, then why the hell did you register on the Fragnetics server instead of the EZ-PC server? Don't ever play on Fragnetics. It's full of RP elitists who think their form of roleplaying is superior and are unable to accept anyone else's playing style. Play EZ-PC, stay away from the roleplaying shard.   [Reply]

	Thanks to the devs posted by Talad @ 79.40.33.136 on Dec 24 2009 5:17 PM
Look here for a very nice post, I thank the players back for their support !!
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	nothing changed posted by trb7 @ 82.154.97.158 on Oct 6 2009 8:50 PM
Nothing really changed in all these years, the same problems persist, the same rudeness and arrogance by the GMs persist - if you have the patience, read some of the posts below to see how the drama unfolds - you'll never read anything like it in the official Planeshift forums, since all speech is actively censored, it's way past moderation, and anything that might've be deemed even remotely harmful towards Planeshift or Planeshift's image will be deleted before you have the chance to realize it was deleted. No criticism is allowed, if it's constructive, objective and valid is irrelevant, it's just not allowed. Hence all the posts here, seems that everyone that wanted to express their discontent with the game found in happypenguin a forum to express it - obviously the Planeshift forums can't be used, they're meant for endless praising only. If you're a developer wanting to contribute to the game, get ready for a nasty surprise, the existent "developer's team" is oblivious to anything but their own work and specially, their own copyrights, nothing else deserves respect.
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Re: nothing changed posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Oct 7 2009 12:29 AM   I highly recommend reading all of my posts since everyone seems to end up hating me more than anything.   [Reply]   Re: nothing changed posted by Talad @ 79.40.33.136 on Dec 24 2009 5:07 PM Totally wrong. There is a forum for complains open since many years, and it's full of critics and suggestion on how to improve. Hope this disqualifies your posts.   [Reply]

	PlaneShift posted by Zanzibar @ 99.236.187.222 on Jun 21 2009 6:25 PM
If the game masters or moderators tell you to do something and you ignore them, even though you understand what they're asking of you, then you are insulting them. It's like you're saying their opinions don't matter to you. If you waste their time, then that's also insulting them. You're saying their time doesn't matter. You're ignoring the fact that they're volunteers who have better things to do than ask you for the tenth time to play nice. If you come to a forum or game where texting in leet is against the rules, and you're told to stop and you refuse, people will feel that you're not just being rude, but also lazy. It is entirely understandable if people feel insulted by your behaviour in that situation. There are good reasons for the rule on not making threads about game masters. The game masters are putting themselves on the line because they care about the community so much. Since they're putting themselves at risk for the sake of the project and its community, they deserve to be protected. More than that, they need to be protected in order to effectively do what we ask of them.
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Re: PlaneShift posted by arashi20 @ 67.193.245.38 on Jun 22 2009 4:52 AM   First of all, your not listening to what i am telling you... Naimon wasnt the one insulted I was!! .... i hadnt done ANYTHING wrong to begin with so for some reason i am offended and so is my guild, then not only that, the GM can be sarcastic to me when i havent done anything? NO the dont have any right to be protected from this, they have ruless that they themselves are supposed to follow. Why cant you guts cant see that. He had no right to insult me. The ban itself is a whole entirely diferent situation then this. Not only that that but i was on the GM talk asking what a groffel was, and got booted from that server and banned from that as well?!!!! why? The GM abused his power right thier! just because he didnt like my questions?! thats what they have a server there in the first place!!! i understand if i was asking and asking but "whats a groffel"? < this is supposed to be grounds for a ban? if that is then its a little pathetic to me   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Rennaj @ 212.32.73.130 on Jun 22 2009 1:54 PM First off Zanzibar I am utterly amazed at you complete turn around in your view on GM's, amazing! Second There really is no point in posting in this forum as THY are on irc taking Mickey out of you, GM's, the two main posters here, AND well just about everyone ^^ As an ex GM I think I can say how it works, Kerol the moron in charge of the GMs, does not give a shit about you or anyone but himself, Talad does not give a dame what he does, so keep your head down for 20 days, and if you really want to be on there hit list of known trouble makers [[Shalmanezer ((Zanzibar)] ^^] play the game again, but do not be surprised if you are watched [ [Shalmanezer ((Zanzibar)] knows the feeling well ^^] Now how it should work. [Shalmanezer ((Zanzibar)) knows this well ^^] 1.) Talk to player/s. 2.) Warn guilty of their crime/s and what will happen if they carry on. 3.) Repeat and you get a kick. 4.) Followed by a ban if you do it again. But like all rules open to interpretation ^^ My beef with Kerol is he deleted my account [Rennaj] without a word, he still does not have the guts to talk to me, on asking Talad to put it right, after a few PMs I repeat. I understand that his stats would have needed resetting but deletion was a bit extreme. There are many, many ex-GM's but their chars have not been deleted, simply had stats reset. Noxide, Gholmer, Tarel, Chaos, Caarrie... to name but a few. GM chars have never been deleted after leaving the team, so why now? Also to do this without a word is just not on, he could have talked to me, but he never did and still has not given me a explanation, this is nothing but rude. You implied I mislead you, I never said this was my main one, you assumed it. Main point you are not getting is he did it without a word, also if that is what he wanted to do, why was Rennaj reset as a player? Then wipe out, leaving a empty account. Why should I have to start him all over again, when even returning banned players do not have to do this To cut his reply short, Kerol did it, I am a wimp and will not go against him. So be warned do not piss Kerol off as Talad will not help you ^^ WHY am I saying this? Good question I am mad as in crazy OR just typing in my sleep ^^   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Zanzibar @ 99.236.187.222 on Jun 22 2009 9:02 PM   I would not look to Rennaj as an example of a typical game master. If you have questions about the game master team and how they operate, ask it to Kerol. Much of what Rennaj posted is misleading.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Talad @ 79.40.33.136 on Dec 24 2009 5:09 PM Zanzibar is one of the troublemakers we had in the game for YEARS, he did everything possible to have him banned, including harassing other players, insulting everyone, posting on forums rants and nonsense, trolling and such. You are welcome to listen to him if you want.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Dec 24 2009 8:05 PM   Why the hell are we back to Zanzibar-bashing again? He isn't banned and as far as I know he hasn't been active for the past year. You sound like a 13 year old boy who just wants to persistently bully people on the internet.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Talad @ 79.40.33.136 on Dec 27 2009 11:41 AM Are you speaking to me? I refer the posts above made by Zanzibar. There are plenty in here quite recent.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Dec 27 2009 3:14 PM   Of course I am speaking to you. You have no idea what context his post is written in, or what it even says to begin with. Just the fact that it is written by Zanzibar is enough to piss you off. Not only are your recent comments clearly argumentum ad hominem, they are uncivil.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Talad @ 79.50.209.245 on Jan 11 2010 12:59 AM I just stated facts, and warned others about listening to the usual 4-5 people that are spamming all web sites with bad reports on us.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jan 11 2010 5:19 AM   No you're not, you're telling everyone that it's cool to attack other people because that's exactly what you're doing. You are flat-out promoting incivility and this is exactly why everyone considers Peragro Tempus to be a dead project: They promote incivility and now nobody wants to go work for them. People do not do voluntary work in uncivil work environments. Also, not only are you arguing in a circle (just because you claim something is factual doesn't mean it is) but you are making the subjective comments on here appear to be objective. In the end, nobody really cares what people post on here, but everyone's going to care what you say and everyone's going to collectively believe what the press says no matter how "wrong" individuals think they are. This isn't Ed Zitron's review of Darkfall here and there is no reason to get so passionate about what people say on this forum. Think about it: If everyone who posted on here says that PlaneShift is a dead project, then why did out of all websites even Something Awful put in their own review of the game that PlaneShift is a project that refuses to die? If everyone on here thinks that open games must have both open source and open content, then why doesn't the press make a big deal about open content? Because, collectively, nobody really cares about open content and humanity never will care about open content as long as the press doesn't. Furthermore, Zanzibar hasn't been in-game for seven months either and I don't consider that to be quite recent like you do. He is not banned from any of PlaneShift and I would stop nerdraging about what he says on here like he's Ed Zitron. Do you really want to know who the 3hundred/Twinchaos/Bristn/Kordo/Mnemonic1/abraxisxx/Kemistri troll is? It is some German guy named qubodup who manages some unremarkable cheap GameDev.net knockoff called FreeGameDev.net. He also contributes to some unremarkable game called JCRPG where he borrows heavily from the public domain library and makes open content look like crap.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Talad @ 79.50.209.245 on Jan 15 2010 11:27 PM Well, that's the last time I spend time answering to you.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jan 16 2010 12:54 AM   Does that mean you are finally going to stop posting on tLGT?   [Reply]

	[PLANESHIFT] GM abuse posted by arashi20 @ 67.193.245.38 on Jun 20 2009 2:32 AM
HELLO ALL I am currently a player on the game PlaneShift but i have some comments that were apparently not acceptable on the forums. Today i was in the dylo pit, for some of you who arent familiar it is an open "player vs player" pit where you can be attacked by anyone at anytime...but there are npc's in that pit as well called dylo. I fell into that pit and as i tried to escape the dylo followed me into another room, there were other players in this room who saw it come in (no one died) and they took care of it because these other players were stronger than me. My husband thought this was a funny idea and started having the dylo chase him around...another player thought he was doing it as a personal attack to them so they petitioned him for it > this is only the beginning! My husband was then summoned by at least 4 GM's and developers saying that they were all watching him...now i dont no about you but if you were a GM would you all just so happen to be watching one specific character? at that exact moment? Then they said that over the past few days he had 6 reports against him but we didnt see a single one or hear of a single one...then they got on the topic of how he was kill stealing, this is what made me very upset...ive had 5 GM'S tell me that kill stealing is impossible without the help of a cheat or hack of some kind...which my husband was not using...then the GM'S turned around and said that he WAS kill stealing even after they said it was impossible? They let my husband ramble on and on about how he hadnt done anything..mind you the dylo misshap wasnt even in a rule anywhere...there is no rule that says you cant move an npc...and if they think it was a type of harassment which we said it wasnt they still refused to believe him or even for the most part listen to anything he was saying I wish i truly do that he could have saved the logs i would love to show you all...i dont remember all that was said but as this was going on i was talking to one of the GM'S also, i told him he knew that kill stealing was impossible and asked him why he was going along with this whole ordeal...but all he replied with was a smiley face. i told him never to speak to me again as he was no help and he lied to the both of us and then he told me to have a good day, again i told him do not speak to me and he had the nerve to say that he was just replying to my question!!! i told him again not to speak to me and that his smiley fae wasnt even an answer to the questions i had asked him and guess what he told me...HE TOLD ME I WAS HARASSING HIM AND FOR ME NOT TO SPEAK TO HIM!! Then we moved onto the forums to seek justice and vioce our opinions this is what my husband had to say (only a small portion) Hello all, We all know the GM team is corrupt and whatever they says goes no matter what the rules say. But today is enough i say. Today i was banned for kill stealing. Which mind you multiple GM's including Rizin and Tazen have told me is impossible without hacks wich i did not have and they check my inventory too. Now for the other reason i was banned FOR 30 DAYS, harassment. Apparently if you get enough of your guild memebers in a petition saying someone is harassing you you will get banned even if you only ever had a problem with one of their guild members wich was my case. and thirdly bad behavior wich intailed me saying the word jerk ONCE, And apparently bullyin a new player wich they knew was a complete mis understanding i accidently killed someone and told them sorry and i am being punished for it. Despite my best efforts to change these two corrupt dev and GM couple want me off the game even though i have been helping out 56 people allll new mind you progress in the game and all of them will tell you i am deffinetly not the man these corupt leaders portray me as. But unfortunitly what can i do. do to past mistakes i am marked as scum or unwanted person in the world of planeshift. Now i ask you if i was so bad and such a horrible person why is it that a guild the warriors thats been around for 3 YEARS not have a problem with me, And why is it if im such a horrible person of the community who gets supposedly soooo many Get this...you are not allowed to post ANYTHING about a GM...nothing what so ever...SO okay thats fine...but then i tried to start a topic about freedom of speach and wouldnt you no it....i wasnt allowed to do that either...even though it was regarding the PLANESHIFT game To be honest the GM'S arent following thier own rules, they wouldnt show him any proof of his actions either...they banned me from thier chat site for questions and they kept kicking me out when i was waiting for my answeres...i never said a single rude thing..But the GM i was speaking to i told him that if my husband was such a bad person then why does he have a guild of 56 players who are very loyal to him...and the GM'S response was "the Natzis were very loyal to hitler to and look what became of them" I personaly took offense to that, then my husband asked them to seek out the truth and the GM'S response was "yes im going to talk to your guild rather then make myself dinner" i mean if you want respect GM'S give a little respect to the players...You couldnt even prove that my husband even did anything wrong so there shouldnt be a ban in the first place...and if there was 6 complaints to begin with and they were all so terrible as you say they were then why was he not warned first? where is the proof?!!! (Thank you for reading, this is the first post ive really ever done...and please while i love the game itself...i play it alot!! i dont think the GM'S are doing thier jobs and they are most deffinately abusing the power they are given)
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Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jun 20 2009 6:29 AM   NOTE: GM stands for Guardian Merchants (their guild), not Game Masters. I will repost the OP to make it easier to read. HELLO ALL I am currently a player on the game PlaneShift but i have some comments that were apparently not acceptable on the forums. Today i was in the dylo pit, for some of you who arent familiar it is an open "player vs player" pit where you can be attacked by anyone at anytime...but there are npc's in that pit as well called dylo. I fell into that pit and as i tried to escape the dylo followed me into another room, there were other players in this room who saw it come in (no one died) and they took care of it because these other players were stronger than me. My husband thought this was a funny idea and started having the dylo chase him around...another player thought he was doing it as a personal attack to them so they petitioned him for it > this is only the beginning! My husband was then summoned by at least 4 Guardian Merchants and developers saying that they were all watching him...now i dont no about you but if you were a Guardian Merchant would you all just so happen to be watching one specific character? at that exact moment? Then they said that over the past few days he had 6 reports against him but we didnt see a single one or hear of a single one...then they got on the topic of how he was kill stealing, this is what made me very upset...ive had 5 Guardian Merchants tell me that kill stealing is impossible without the help of a cheat or hack of some kind...which my husband was not using...then the Guardian Merchants turned around and said that he WAS kill stealing even after they said it was impossible? They let my husband ramble on and on about how he hadnt done anything..mind you the dylo misshap wasnt even in a rule anywhere...there is no rule that says you cant move an npc...and if they think it was a type of harassment which we said it wasnt they still refused to believe him or even for the most part listen to anything he was saying I wish i truly do that he could have saved the logs i would love to show you all...i dont remember all that was said but as this was going on i was talking to one of the Guardian Merchants also, i told him he knew that kill stealing was impossible and asked him why he was going along with this whole ordeal...but all he replied with was a smiley face. i told him never to speak to me again as he was no help and he lied to the both of us and then he told me to have a good day, again i told him do not speak to me and he had the nerve to say that he was just replying to my question!!! i told him again not to speak to me and that his smiley fae wasnt even an answer to the questions i had asked him and guess what he told me...HE TOLD ME I WAS HARASSING HIM AND FOR ME NOT TO SPEAK TO HIM!! Then we moved onto the forums to seek justice and vioce our opinions this is what my husband had to say (only a small portion) Hello all, We all know the Guardian Merchant team is corrupt and whatever they says goes no matter what the rules say. But today is enough i say. Today i was banned for kill stealing. Which mind you multiple Guardian Merchants including Rizin and Tazen have told me is impossible without hacks wich i did not have and they check my inventory too. Now for the other reason i was banned FOR 30 DAYS, harassment. Apparently if you get enough of your guild memebers in a petition saying someone is harassing you you will get banned even if you only ever had a problem with one of their guild members wich was my case. and thirdly bad behavior wich intailed me saying the word jerk ONCE, And apparently bullyin a new player wich they knew was a complete mis understanding i accidently killed someone and told them sorry and i am being punished for it. Despite my best efforts to change these two corrupt dev and Guardian Merchant couple want me off the game even though i have been helping out 56 people allll new mind you progress in the game and all of them will tell you i am deffinetly not the man these corupt leaders portray me as. But unfortunitly what can i do. do to past mistakes i am marked as scum or unwanted person in the world of planeshift. Now i ask you if i was so bad and such a horrible person why is it that a guild the warriors thats been around for 3 YEARS not have a problem with me, And why is it if im such a horrible person of the community who gets supposedly soooo many Get this...you are not allowed to post ANYTHING about a Guardian Merchant...nothing what so ever...SO okay thats fine...but then i tried to start a topic about freedom of speach and wouldnt you no it....i wasnt allowed to do that either...even though it was regarding the PLANESHIFT game To be honest the Guardian Merchants arent following thier own rules, they wouldnt show him any proof of his actions either...they banned me from thier chat site for questions and they kept kicking me out when i was waiting for my answeres...i never said a single rude thing..But the Guardian Merchant i was speaking to i told him that if my husband was such a bad person then why does he have a guild of 56 players who are very loyal to him...and the Guardian Merchants response was "the Natzis were very loyal to hitler to and look what became of them" I personaly took offense to that, then my husband asked them to seek out the truth and the Guardian Merchants response was "yes im going to talk to your guild rather then make myself dinner" i mean if you want respect Guardian Merchants give a little respect to the players...You couldnt even prove that my husband even did anything wrong so there shouldnt be a ban in the first place...and if there was 6 complaints to begin with and they were all so terrible as you say they were then why was he not warned first? where is the proof?!!! (Thank you for reading, this is the first post ive really ever done...and please while i love the game itself...i play it alot!! i dont think the Guardian Merchants are doing thier jobs and they are most deffinately abusing the power they are given)   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by arashi20 @ 67.193.245.38 on Jun 20 2009 4:31 PM   This person who just re-posted my post did it in another forum as well PLEASE NOT THAT GM STANDS OR GAME MASTER not guardian merchant, i dont no how this person isnt aware of it when i told him that to begin with on the other orum he did this on ^_^   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jun 20 2009 6:53 PM   See? GM stands for Guardian Merchants, this is clearly about Guardian Merchant abuse.   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by arashi20 @ 67.193.245.38 on Jun 20 2009 8:26 PM   Tuxide your clearly bad at this, no wonder everyone kept calling you a troll everyone knows what im talking about GM stands for GAME MASER i dont no how many times i need to repeat myself. Maybe you should write it down so you will remember next time ^_^   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jun 20 2009 8:38 PM   PLEASE NOT THAT GM STANDS OR GAME MASTER Done. If it doesn't stand for Game Master, like you said, it stands for Guardian Merchant.   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] GM abuse posted by Zanzibar @ 99.236.187.222 on Jun 20 2009 9:59 PM   "My husband was then summoned by at least 4 GMs and developers saying that they were all watching him...now i dont no about you but if you were a GM would you all just so happen to be watching one specific character? at that exact moment?" If they suspect someone is breaking the rules or is going to break the rules, they will watch that person. 4 GMs seems like a lot, but I can see that happening. All you'd have to do is ask people in the GM chat or on irc to come hang out and watch the person as a group. "Then they said that over the past few days he had 6 reports against him but we didnt see a single one or hear of a single one..." This makes sense as well. If they suspect that you're breaking the rules, but they don't have great evidence for it, they might wait for you to do it again while being watched. Letting you know you're being watched might make it more difficult for them to catch you. "They let my husband ramble on and on about how he hadnt done anything..mind you the dylo misshap wasnt even in a rule anywhere...there is no rule that says you cant move an npc...and if they think it was a type of harassment which we said it wasnt they still refused to believe him or even for the most part listen to anything he was saying" Can you understand why someone might feel harassed if you led an ultra powerful, ultra fast mob to them? There doesn't have to be a rule that explicitly makes a behaviour illegal in order for that behaviour to be illegal. The Game Masters have an extremely high level of discretion when it comes to labeling behaviours as disruptive. That said, the situation seems to also be very much complicated by the fact that the ban isn't based on only a single kind of offense. "i told him he knew that kill stealing was impossible and asked him why he was going along with this whole ordeal..." I don't know why anyone would tell you kill stealing is impossible. Kill stealing in PlaneShift is very possible, and you don't need a third party program or any kind of hack. All you need to do is cast arrow on a mob. Here's how it works: Player 1 attacks mob A. Player 2 begins casting arrow on mob A. Player 1 hits mob A. Player 2's spell finishes casting and hits mob A. Player 1 receives a message saying Player 2 is already attacking mob A. Player 1 is now blocked from attacking mob A. If both players use arrow, then they will both be locked out of attacking the mob. Pretty much everyone knows about this, including all the game masters and developers. The only thing I can think of is that maybe they don't call it kill stealing. But you're stealing someone's kill, so I don't know what else to call it. If the game masters no longer call this kill stealing, then I'll have to start calling it something else as well. I'm not going to defend everything anyone does, nor is it my intention to attack anyone with this post, nor is it my intention to speak on behalf of the game masters, nor is it my intention to definitively state why the game masters did what they did. Everything in this post is merely my opinion, and as such, should be ignored. :-D   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Jun 20 2009 11:22 PM   Sounds like he was making NPC trains and running over people to me. See? What did I say, I told you this is about Guardian Merchant abuse.   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by Zanzibar @ 99.236.187.222 on Jun 21 2009 12:04 AM   People are abusing the Guardian Merchants?   [Reply]   Re: [PLANESHIFT] Guardian Merchant abuse posted by arashi20 @ 67.193.245.38 on Jun 21 2009 1:17 AM   please be quiet tuxide ive really had just about enough of you and no first they said 3 reports were filed, then they said 6, then they said 12?!! i mean all 4 gms couldnt even stick to one story? and naimon was in the arena killing mercenaries for about 30 minutes before anything happened...im to believe that the GMs were watching him that whole time? and sorry but RIZIN herselff told me that kill stealing is impossible without a bug/cheat/hack and naimon doesnt even have an arrow spell thank you very much. It all sounds a little fishy to me..and plus, the person being banned is allowed to see proof and or evidene of why hes being banned and they could not provide anything to me it doesnt seem right at all Not to mention if there were that many reports filed against him by other players over the course of one week...then why didnt they ban him before all of that because one of the gms told him and gave him a warning that if he did anything else to be disruptive he would be banned for 6 months, well apparently he had 12 reports filed after that gm told him that and he was only banned for 30 days? where does that make sense?   [Reply]

	PlaneShift posted by Zanzibar @ 99.236.187.222 on Mar 10 2009 12:14 AM
The following post was deleted from PlaneShift's official forum: "The tavern in Hydlaa is a traditional place to meet other roleplayers. Events are advertised on the forum that are wonderful opportunities for RP. People [also] collect near Harnquist although they aren't exclusively looking for RP." If anyone can tell me why such a post should be deleted, I'm listening. It's not the first time seemingly innocuous posts have been deleted on the official forum without explanation, but it's irritating. Does anyone know what the policy or thinking is behind deleting such posts? I can't think of any justification for it.
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Re: PlaneShift posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Mar 11 2009 1:01 AM   Why it depends what thread it was on. If something off-topic was on my <Banker> guild thread, I would be pissed. Welcome to the backseat modding crew.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Zanzibar @ 99.236.187.222 on Mar 11 2009 3:34 AM   It was posted here. I was the second person to reply.   [Reply]

	PlaneShift posted by Gallaecio @ 213.60.150.134 on Feb 21 2009 4:14 PM
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	PlaneShift posted by Zanzibar @ 173.32.153.130 on Feb 10 2009 6:24 AM
I know a lot of critics read here, so I want to pose a question to you... If so much is wrong with PlaneShift, why is it still around? And why does it always have a dedicated group of players around it?
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Re: PlaneShift posted by testx @ 66.189.95.152 on Mar 4 2009 10:25 AM I think a better question is: Why hasn't planeshift grown at all both in terms of player base and quality over the past few years? I've tried planeshift a number of times. I usually check it out once a year. Every single time I've tried the same thing has happened. I start exploring and never see anyone. Then, usually within an hour, I get stuck on some terrain or stuck in some area that I can't get out of so I kill myself. In purgatory, I try to get out for about 10 minutes and then give up. Also, purgatory is the only place I've ever seen anyone else (they were also lost). The thing that baffles me about purgatory is that it doesn't seem to change. So while experienced players probably don't mind it once they know how to get out, it is absolutely punishing for new players. What I don't understand is why planeshift developers don't seem to want new contributors. Look, I'm a developer and I'm interested in working on an mmo. Let's say I wanted to try to fix that problem where I got stuck on terrain. How would I do that? I can get the source for the engine, but I can't actually load the terrain that I got stuck on. The process for becoming a new developer (who presumably has access) is ridiculous too. I want to contribute in my spare time, not apply for a real job that doesn't pay. To answer your question: People are still playing because there is a lot of interest in free mmo's. Even a bad one is likely to attract a bunch of people. When you compare planeshift to any other free mmo though, it's player base is tiny. They just haven't structured the project in a way that's going to lead to growth.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Striker @ 71.228.44.213 on May 10 2009 7:38 PM   It is a spare-time project being managed and funded by three individuals. It isn't going anywhere. Because it is free and always there, there will always be users associated with it. That means nothing. Better questions are why its user base never significantly grows, why the segment of longtime players is not bigger than a couple of people, and why the same issues get discussed over and over about the project repeatedly.   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Talad @ 79.40.33.136 on Dec 24 2009 5:11 PM Why 90% of the bad posts here are made by Zanzibar?   [Reply]   Re: PlaneShift posted by Tuxide @ 24.252.46.107 on Dec 24 2009 8:10 PM   Why do you give a damn about what Zanzibar says?   [Reply]

	Don't forget to...Have Fun posted by Acuzio @ 82.208.161.109 on Jan 31 2009 8:41 PM
I've seen all those people talking about bugs, developers, GMs, the (im)balance of power in the comunity; Guys you have to recognize that arguing isn't the goal of the game, I recomend you all to open the game in fullscreen mode, set an away message like "[This character isn't telephatic, you'll have to find me and wave in my range of vision]" close all the windows onscreen (shortcuts,status,comunication;..all of them) and go in first-person view camera, explore around (for example the Bronze Doors valley), try this immersive gameplay, and just ENJOY !!! fo`get about GMs, be a peasant for one day Long live the boss and fill the coffers
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